The Real Problem With Inclusion Programs in Organizations

In this episode of Building Leadership Community, Coach Dora Mendez is joined by educator and national equity leader Dr. Danielle R. Moss Cox for a deep conversation on leadership, mentorship, and community. Dr. Cox reflects on her journey, the power of integrity, and how relationships shape lasting impact.

Timestamps

00:00 Welcome
03:20 Leadership origins
09:12 The TED Talk story
15:18 Integrity in leadership
18:10 Community and philanthropy
24:24 Advice for emerging leaders
32:07 Purpose over position

Key Themes
Leadership without titles Mentorship and community Career growth through integrity

Guest Bio
Dr. Danielle R. Moss Cox is an educator, advocate, and national leader in educational equity with over 20 years of experience.

Connect with Dr. Danielle Cox
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drdaniellermosscox/
https://oliverscholars.org

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https://www.coachdoramendez.com/merch

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Hello, and welcome to Building Leadership Community Podcasts. I'm your host, Dominicans. I'm the founder and CEO of Coach LLC, much more business impacts, and community leaders that provide social impact. It can be money at the top. But it doesn't have to be.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

And, you know, it's just one of these full circle moments. I've watched you build this business into something incredible and viable as a Dominican woman leader in New York City. So I want to make sure we give you your flowers as well. This is a really hard question because in many ways I didn't like grow up saying, I want to be a leader. But really, it was adults who were pouring into me throughout my growing up, my development, my journey, who kind of came to me and were like, you're gonna lead this. We know you can do it. Let us know if you have any questions. Um and that kind of experience started probably when I was about um 13. Uh and so I understand that leadership doesn't happen in a vacuum. It really happens because a community shows up for a young person and uh gives you a vision of yourself that you may not have uh seen as part of your trajectory. Um, but I'm gonna share something about leadership and the importance of leading with integrity and empathy and how that has worked for me um uh in my career and in my life. So a lot of people have asked me over the years, how did you end up doing a TED talk? Um, and I think this is actually uh a leadership story for me. So I did not know. Um, first of all, I had not assumed that having a TED talk would ever be part of my trajectory. Um, it wasn't something that was on my bucket list, um, but I certainly assumed that it was some sort of competitive process where, you know, you had to apply, you had to be a really good public speaker, maybe you had to send in reels. Like I had no idea. Um, and I was at a difficult juncture in my career professionally, um, just trying to figure out what was next for me. Um, and I happened to check my personal email address um one day, and there is a message from someone saying that they work for the TED organization, and would I be interested in doing a TED talk? So, but it's just like like I had not applied, like, where's the application? What do I have to do? Um, at that particular moment, I was um in a in a stage of professional exploration, let me just call it that. Um, and so I responded, I said, well, the first thing I said was, you know, I'm not the CEO of this organization. Um, and so she replied back, um, like, sis, I don't even know where you work. So it was just like, oh. And then she said, I so I said, well, what do I have to do? Like, what do I have to send in? She was like, you just have to say yes. Um, and so I'm thinking, like, this seems like a trick. Um, but of course, you, you know, you want to kind of seize the moment. Um, and so I I said yes. And um, if you do a talk through the TED organizational organization directly, um, you're assigned kind of a coach. So TED X events are local events that are locally sponsored and kind of license the TED brand in order to deliver their content. And then TED has another, you know, pathway where they kind of like manage the talk and coordinate and work with you on the drafts and help you kind of get really concise about your message. Um, and so that was the route that that I took. But here's the story of how they um found me. So many years ago, um, one of my staff members uh at an organization I was leading was doing her dissertation. And it was on education. Um, she was actually, I think, a TC student, and she said, Can can I use this organization for my dissertation? And would you be willing to be interviewed and give me access to certain data and all this kind of thing? So, of course, I want to see um other folks win, right? And so I was like, absolutely, this is exciting. Like maybe we'll learn something more about our practice as a result of your research. Um, so fast forward, she's a dynamo, she gets her PhD. Um, and then she comes back and says, you know, I have an opportunity to publish my dissertation as a book, um, which I thought was, you know, just as exciting. I was like, oh my God, congratulations, this is wonderful. Um, and you know, she promised that um those who had participated in the study would remain anonymous in the book, um, which was good because you know, we were, let's just say we were connected in our conversations and interviews. Um, and so she releases the book. Um, it becomes um a staple for many youth development um programs uh in academia, but then a lot of people in the sector also uh got their hands on the book. And so what happened was um there was something that I said in the book, right, which is not attributed directly to me, that caught the eye of the curation team at TED. So basically, there's a curation team that scours books, interviews organizations globally um looking for what they feel are unique ideas. Um, and so they initially were offering her the TED talk. And she said, Well, actually, that was not those are not my words. That was those were my executive director's words, and let me give you her contact information. And so once they had my name, um, you know, then they do their own due diligence. So by the time they were reaching out to me, they had already seen interviews that I had done, they had read articles that I had published over the course of my career. Um, you know, they had vetted me. And so that's why when I got the email and it was kind of like, well, what do I have to do? They already had all the information that they needed. And I say that this is a leadership story because how you treat people when you are in leadership matters because there was plenty of opportunity for her to parlay that phone call from Ted into an opportunity for herself. Um, but because she's a person of integrity, um, but also because I had taken the opportunity to pour into her and to nurture her and support her uh educational aspirations when she was on my team, she had no problem um connecting me with that organization. And I have to say, right, I think we've all had bosses who, if we had been in a similar situation, um just based on our personal interactions with those leaders, we would have been, let's just say, less inclined to create a platform for those leaders. But it's such a powerful lesson, right? Because how you treat people matters. Um how you show up in every space matters, and maybe uh it doesn't, you don't see the the extent to which it matters in that moment, right? But you don't know who on your team is gonna go off to be the head of some foundation or to be in a position to to to kind of help you along in your professional journey. Um so so that was something um that I took away from it. But it's also the lesson is someone's always watching, right? Like especially in the age of the internet, you don't know who's reading what you've written, who's paying attention to your content, who is um, you know, watching your TED talk. Um you know, someone's always watching. And so, you know, and that's not just like AI, right? But it's also like right, but who you are and how you show up and how you build a personal brand can be incredibly consequential to you personally and professionally. And so if you if you stay ready, you don't have to get ready, right? So I recently um did a post on LinkedIn um where you know I have all kinds of opinions, as you know. Um, and this has been an incredibly difficult year for nonprofit organizations that have looked to serve uh black and brown communities with some intention, um, to kind of level the the playing field, right? Um, and so suddenly the idea of equity and inclusion has become a dirty word. And you know, I think at first there's been a lot of kind of shock at the extent to which we see things being rolled back, um, but I'm also starting to allow myself to get a little angry about it. Um, and I had had a conversation um with someone connected to my organization, and I started to think about why is this bothering me so much? Why does this matter? Right, and I came across in my Facebook memories a photo of myself at 15 years old in a kimono standing in the living room of my host family uh when I had the opportunity to go um to Tokyo, Japan for the summer. And that opportunity was made possible because of philanthropy, right? And I attended an independent high school myself, and I didn't have a full scholarship, but I certainly had generous financial aid. And that opportunity was made possible because of philanthropy, and that helped to open the door um to a place like Swarthmore College, um, which also would have been financially out of my family's reach without philanthropy. Um and so, and and you know, from a community perspective, um my church sent me to college with book money and a Bible, and that was philanthropy too, right? And so what I began to really connect with is I'm I am the product. Um, you know, I have an amazing mother, I'm a fourth-generation college graduate, right? But because of the way race has um shaped the socio and economic experiences of people of color in this country, right, I would not have been able to access um the opportunities that I was more than qualified for without the benefit of philanthropy. Um, and I think uh, you know, Vu Lee, known as uh nonprofit as fuck, um yes, yes, and he talks about, you know, and we have to remind ourselves that the nonprofit sector is the infrastructure of our society, right? And we can't endeavor to hurt certain members of our uh communities without chipping away at what helps to make all of us whole. Um, you know, Vu said in his keynote um the nonprofit sector is like air. And you don't notice it every day, but you notice when you don't have it, right? Yeah. So and also for me, you know, when I think about the rooms that I've had access to, like what other than what other social mechanism would put me in the room with a billionaire donor? Like, we're not going to the same places. We don't vacation in the same circles. I can't afford the restaurants that they eat at, right? But that is the foundation of a democracy, the ability to engage with people who don't necessarily share your experiences, but in many instances share your values and to be reminded of that in a really tangible way. So um, you know, and also like this amazing community, including our meeting each other, that has opened up to me um as a result of my work in this sector, right? Uh, there are a lot of friends I wouldn't have, there are a lot of experiences um I wouldn't have if the fundamental foundation of philanthrop philanthropy wasn't built on this notion of community. Um of the the the pieces of advice that I give to young people now is don't take my advice. You know what I'm saying? Like take take the meat and leave the bones, right? But don't be afraid to chart your own course, right? I would say that there have been moments in my career where um, you know, it's the the challenge with advice is sometimes people are advising you from the place of their own fears. You know what I'm saying? Like my mother um didn't want me to go into education or social work um because she didn't think that I could have the same kind of socioeconomic movement, right? Right, right. So sometimes we advise out of our own places of disappointment and our fears for young people because we don't want them to experience all the same um pain uh and losses that we've experienced. Um and sometimes that, you know, it's it comes from a place of love, right? It's not haterade, not all the time, right? But um, you know, when I think back to like people will say, well, how come you never just started your own nonprofit organization? Right. And my pursuit of stability um and the advice that I got from people around me, um, you know, definitely left me kind of gun shy. Um, and I'm gonna use a compensation uh instance that I had. I was um in the process of negotiating my first executive um opportunity, and I asked um uh a black woman mentor, you know, how should I approach this? Like I don't even know what to ask for. Um and she said, you know, well, executive compensation um should be this percentage of the budget, and you should look at what their expenses are, right? It's all about accommodating the institution. I asked the same question of a white female uh mentor. Completely different answer. She was like, yeah, she was like, if they want uh, you know, a Volkswagen, then let them go to the Volkswagen dealership. If they want a burn a Benz and you're in the Benz dealership, then you pay what it costs to drive the more expensive car. What they can afford is not related to your value and your worth. Both looking, you know what I'm saying, both looking at the same situation, right? But within the limits of their own lens that's rooted in their own experience. So, you know, I always say to people, one of my most impactful mentors um has been a white male. He's known me for a long time, and people are surprised to hear me say that. And I say that because Stephen's vision for what's possible for me is has consistently over 20 years outpaced what I saw for myself. Because as a white man, he doesn't face the same limitations and obstacles that I know are existent in my own life. Um, but I think you do need those moments of clarity to say, am I letting who society views me as limit what I can even imagine is possible for me professionally. You know what I'm saying? Like, so he'll be like, so-and-so, you know, university is looking for a president. And I'm like, you know, Steven, I haven't worked in higher ed and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, not in an administrative capacity. Um, but he's like, but all the boxes in terms of competencies are things that you check. And so um, you know, it's have have a balance um because oftentimes, even myself, not intentionally, you're advising from your own lens that is colored by all the joys, but also all the knocks and bruises that you've had to endure over the course of your life. Um, and so listen and and be open, right? But go for broke. Essentially, right? Essentially. There's no such thing as a secure job, you know. Um, and and you know, security doesn't necessarily have um any connection to your competence or your accomplishments. Um, many years ago I was going through something and I had lunch uh with uh a woman that I respect, and I said, you know, how can you like fire someone when they're doing an incredible job and it's well documented? And she said, competent people get fired all the time because they they disrupt other people's spirits.

SPEAKER_03 33:03

I got fired, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 33:06

I've been fired, and so what that experience taught me was not only was I in good company, because you know, if Oprah got fired, anybody can get fired, but also um that you're the organ I'm at a point in my career where I don't define myself by my title. Um the the head of Tiaa, um, I think her name is Thasunda, she posted something that said, you know, your title you rent, your character is yours to keep. And so who I am and how I show up has followed me at every role that I've held. And so I'm less worried about my my purpose is my purpose, and my job is the vehicle I drive to get to my purpose, if that makes sense, right? That I have met, and so now I want to get to 20,000. So um if there's anything of value that I've shared today, please connect with me on LinkedIn, follow me. I try to deliver um useful and valuable leadership content on that platform. And um and yeah, and it's also given me great community, right? Um, there are leaders all over the country and all over the world that I've inboxed with and had the opportunity to engage with and learn from. Um, so I would I would love it if uh your listeners would help me get to that goal.

SPEAKER_03 36:19

Thank you. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

You've been listening to Building Leadership Community. Watch on YouTube at CoachDorm listen wherever you get your podcasts. Follow me on LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube at CoachdourM. Listen number one at CoachdoorMendez.com. Oops, Mendez.